(from a few days ago: oct-17-20205) I had a funny interaction at the credit union today. apparently you are not allowed to endorse checks to yourself if they are made out to your business and you don't have a business account with the bank. makes sense... but does it really? what about typos? or nicknames? or simply ensdorsing and transfering personal check to friend or business partner? i guess checks to businesses are different for some reason. and i guess i've broken the law or something, because i am pretty sure i have done this in the past without issue. i did not know it was against the rules. googling seems to only give my crummy results - perhapse i am not using the right words. but based on what i found, i am still unsure if this is a legal issue or a policy issue specific to the credit union. again, i'm pretty sure i have done this in the past, and my dad has all sort of stories from decades ago endorsing checks made out to the various orgs he was involved with. I'm not really the most successful in business myself, and so have only a limited experience doing this sort of thing, but i was kind of shocked when the teller(who turned out to also be the banker), returned my check and explained that they could not deposit it for me, because as she explained it was made out to a business name(my business name), and i needed a business account for that(i have a personal account). nothing i could say could change here mind. they had a very firm policy. note, our business(tinkerland farm) is located just a few miles down the road from the bank. i wonder if this is policy everywhere? and how did i get such a wrong idea by doing this on a few occassions, when i couldn't decide whether to ask a customer to pay to me or my mom in a check. at the same time i have notices the rise of payment apps in my day-to-day existence. we always get a couple customers each season baffled at the prospect of a cash-only business. also there does seem to be a trend online and in FOSS for people to use apps and crypto, which i am kind of aposed to(it is a philosophical thing). I seem to remember reading some news stories about various contries actually going cashless, and developing digital currency. i hope we never get that bad in the states. my dad mentioned apparently cashing a check is near impossible now in norway: i guess he was right. here it is: https://www.vixio.com/insights/pc-norways-central-bank-confirms-cbdc-testing#:~:text=Norway%20is%20widely%20regarded%20as%20being%20one,in%20terms%20of%20usage%20of%20digital%20payments. "Norges Bank, said in its Financial Infrastructure 2022 report that the testing phase for its central bank digital currency (CBDC)" https://www.reddit.com/r/trondheim/comments/b09ky5/can_you_cash_a_cheque_in_norway/ apparently it is kind of a thing now that norwegians haven't used paper checks for awhile now. i didn't know that. i haven't been there in a long time. https://www.cashmatters.org/blog/norways-bold-break-from-a-cashless-future "Norway has introduced legislation ensuring everyone has the right to pay with cash in retail settings" - wow, they had to enact laws to protect cash. what is wrong with norwegians? sell your sole to the app already. https://acf.gov/css/policy-guidance/wire-payments-countries-not-accepting-paper-checks """ Currently, the following countries no longer accept paper checks for child support payments, or they have requested electronic payments: Austria Belarus Czech Republic Hungary Latvia Portugal Romania Slovakia Slovenia Switzerland Ukraine ... Please note that the Netherlands and Norway have U.S. bank accounts for receiving child support payments and have requested that states send child support payments by domestic ACH payments to those accounts. Further information for Norway and the Netherlands can be found on the OCSE International webpage. """ it looks like trump admin also wants to do away with paper checks: https://thestatement.bokf.com/articles/2025/08/the-federal-government-says-goodbye-to-paper-checks """ Paper checks are going the way of fax machines, typewriters and landlines. A new executive order signed in March called “Modernizing Payments to and From America’s Bank Account (Opens in a new tab)” requires all federal agencies to stop sending and receiving paper checks and switch to electronic payments by Sept. 30, 2025. “Paper-based payments, such as checks and money orders, impose unnecessary costs and delays, plus risks of fraud, lost payments, theft and inefficiencies,” a statement from the White House (Opens in a new tab) explained the decision. Under the order, all government departments and agencies will have to issue and accept disbursements via electronic transfer methods, like direct deposit, debit or credit card payments, virtual cards (Opens in a new tab), digital wallets and real-time payments. “Whether you’re a contractor, vendor or even just paying a fee to a federal agency, you’ll need to move away from checks and make sure your business can handle digital transactions,” said Chris Zieber, corporate card program manager at BOK Financial®. “The move to electronic transactions is a global trend,” he continued. “The U.S. has just been slower to adopt it. There are several countries like Sweden, Norway and South Korea that almost exclusively use electronic forms of payment. Overall, this is a positive move.”\ ... """ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/03/modernizing-payments-to-and-from-americas-bank-account/ """ Modernizing Payments To and From America’s Bank Account Executive Orders March 25, 2025 By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered: Section 1. Purpose. The continued use of paper-based payments by the Federal Government, including checks and money orders, flowing into and out of the United States General Fund, which might be thought of as America’s bank account, imposes unnecessary costs; delays; and risks of fraud, lost payments, theft, and inefficiencies. Mail theft complaints have increased substantially since the COVID-19 pandemic. Historically, Department of the Treasury checks are 16 times more likely to be reported lost or stolen, returned undeliverable, or altered than an electronic funds transfer (EFT). Maintaining the physical infrastructure and specialized technology for digitizing paper records cost the American taxpayer over $657 million in Fiscal Year 2024 alone. This order promotes operational efficiency by mandating the transition to electronic payments for all Federal disbursements and receipts by digitizing payments to the extent permissible under applicable law (but not, for avoidance of doubt, to establish a Central Bank Digital Currency). Sec. 2. Policy. It is the policy of the United States to defend against financial fraud and improper payments, increase efficiency, reduce costs, and enhance the security of Federal payments. Sec. 3. Phase Out of Paper Check Disbursements and Receipts. (a) Effective September 30, 2025, and to the extent permitted by law, the Secretary of the Treasury shall cease issuing paper checks for all Federal disbursements inclusive of intragovernmental payments, benefits payments, vendor payments, and tax refunds, except as specified in section 4 of this order. (b) All executive departments and agencies (agencies) shall comply with this directive by transitioning to EFT methods, including direct deposit, prepaid card accounts, and other digital payment options, and take all steps necessary to enroll recipients in EFT payments, except as specified in section 4 of this order. (c) As soon as practicable, and to the extent permitted by law, all payments made to the Federal Government shall be processed electronically, except as specified in section 4 of this order. (d) The Secretary of State, the Secretary of the Treasury, the Secretary of Health and Human Services, the Secretary of Education, the Secretary of Veterans Affairs, and the Secretary of Homeland Security shall take appropriate action to eliminate the need for the Department of the Treasury’s physical lockbox services and expedite requirements to receive the payment of Federal receipts, including fees, fines, loans, and taxes, through electronic means except as specified in section 4 of this order. (e) The Secretary of the Treasury shall support agencies’ transition to digital payment methods, including by providing access through the Department of the Treasury’s centralized payment systems to: (i) direct deposits; (ii) debit and credit card payments; (iii) digital wallets and real-time payment systems; and (iv) other modern electronic payment options. Sec. 4. Exceptions and Accommodations for the Phase Out of Paper Check Disbursements and Receipts. (a) The Secretary of the Treasury, shall review and, as appropriate, revise procedures for granting limited exceptions where electronic payment and collection methods are not feasible, including exceptions for: (i) individuals who do not have access to banking services or electronic payment systems; (ii) certain emergency payments where electronic disbursement would cause undue hardship, as contemplated in 31 C.F.R. Part 208; (iii) national security- or law enforcement-related activities where non-EFT transactions are necessary or desirable; and (iv) other circumstances as determined by the Secretary of the Treasury, as reflected in regulations or other guidance. (b) Individuals or entities qualifying for an exception under this section or other applicable law shall be provided alternative payment options. Sec. 5. Implementation and Compliance of Electronic Transactions. (a) The Secretary of the Treasury, in coordination with the heads of agencies, shall develop and implement a comprehensive public awareness campaign to inform Federal payment recipients of the transition to electronic payments, including guidance on accessing and setting up digital payment options. (b) Agencies shall coordinate with the Department of the Treasury to facilitate a smooth transition to digital payments, ensuring that affected individuals and entities receive adequate support. (c) The Secretary of the Treasury shall work with financial institutions, consumer groups, and other stakeholders to address financial access for unbanked and underbanked populations. (d) The Secretary of the Treasury and the heads of agencies shall take all necessary steps to protect classified information and systems, as well as personally identifiable information and tax return information, through the implementation of this order. Sec. 6. Reporting Requirements. (a) The heads of agencies shall submit a compliance plan to the Director of the Office of Management and Budget within 90 days of the date of this order detailing their strategy for eliminating paper-based transactions. (b) The Secretary of the Treasury shall submit an implementation report to the President through the Assistant to the President for Economic Policy within 180 days of the date of this order detailing progress on the matters set forth in this order. Sec. 7. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this order shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect: (i) the authority granted by law to an executive department or agency, or the head thereof; or (ii) the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals. (b) This order shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations. (c) This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person. DONALD J. TRUMP THE WHITE HOUSE, March 25, 2025. """ also: https://www.whitehouse.gov/fact-sheets/2025/03/fact-sheet-president-donald-j-trump-modernizes-payments-to-and-from-americas-bank-account/ """ Fact Sheet: President Donald J. Trump Modernizes Payments to and from America’s Bank Account The White House March 25, 2025 PHASING OUT PAPER CHECKS: Today, President Donald J. Trump signed an Executive Order to modernize how the government handles money, switching from old-fashioned paper-based payments to fast, secure electronic payments. The Order mandates that, effective September 30, 2025, the Federal government will cease issuing paper checks for all disbursements, including intragovernmental payments, benefits, vendor payments, and tax refunds. All executive departments and agencies must transition to modern, electronic funds transfer (EFT) methods like direct deposit, debit/credit card payments, digital wallets, and real-time transfers. Payments made to the Federal government, such as fees, fines, loans, and taxes, must also be processed electronically where permissible under existing law. Treasury will phase out physical lockbox services and expedite electronic collection of Federal receipts. A comprehensive public awareness campaign will be launched to inform Federal payment recipients of the shift to electronic options and offer guidance on setting up digital payments. Exceptions will be made for people without banking or electronic payment access, certain emergency payments, certain law enforcement activities, and other special cases qualifying for an exception under the Order or other existing law. This Executive Order does not establish a Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC). DEFENDING AGAINST FINANCIAL FRAUD AND IMPROPER PAYMENTS: President Trump is cracking down on waste, fraud, and abuse in government by modernizing outdated paper-based payment systems that impose unnecessary costs, delays, and security risks. Paper-based payments, such as checks and money orders, impose unnecessary costs, delays, and risks of fraud, lost payments, theft, and inefficiencies. Mail theft complaints have increased substantially since 2020. Historically, Treasury checks are 16 times more likely to be reported lost or stolen, returned undeliverable, or altered than an electronic funds transfer. Maintaining the physical infrastructure and specialized technology for digitizing paper records cost the American taxpayer over $657 million in fiscal year 2024 alone. Check fraud is becoming more common, with banks issuing about 680,000 reports of check fraud in 2022 – nearly double the number from 2021. Digital payments are more efficient, less costly, and less vulnerable to fraud. MODERNIZING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT: President Trump is making government work better for the American people. President Trump has long championed the need for replacing outdated technology, saying “government needs to catch up with the technology revolution.” """ https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/modernizing-payments-to-and-from-americas-bank-account "In accordance with Executive Order 14247, Modernizing Payments To and From America's Bank Account, signed on March 25, 2025, the U.S. Department of the Treasury, in coordination with the Internal Revenue Service and other federal agencies, is advancing the transition to fully electronic federal payments. This policy shift includes phase out of paper tax refund checks beginning Sept. 30, 2025, to the extent permitted by law..." it's funny afer readin all that then to see this article: https://www.digitalcheck.com/why-people-are-still-using-checks-in-2025/ "...Also here in 2025, the check – yes, that old-fashioned way of paying someone, where you write their name and a dollar amount on a piece of paper – still has plenty of life left in it, with an estimated 11 billion being written every year according to the most recent numbers from the Federal Reserve Bank. While that’s only about a quarter as many as people wrote in the 1990s, the check is still the second-most used payment method in terms of total dollars exchanged, behind only ACH transfers. In fact, paper checks still move more money each year than all types of credit and debit card transactions combined. What?..." - note this article lumps checks and ACH payments together https://www.atlantafed.org/blogs/take-on-payments/2025/07/07/innovations-in-payments-acceptance-play-out-in-consumer-check-use - atlanta fed says check usage is down. i'm not sure how this is counted or what it is actually compared against. are they county transactions or dollar value? article is poorly written. https://bankingjournal.aba.com/2024/05/is-it-time-to-kill-the-paper-check/ "bankingjournal.aba.com Your browser is out of date. Update your browser to view this site properly. Click here for more information" - this result seems kind of diabolical https://blackhawknetwork.com/resources/blog/payments-ungated/all/dec2024/7-reasons-why-digital-payments-are-better-paper-checks - this article is selling cards, mobile apps, and digital wallets. ACH stands for Automated Clearing House https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_clearing_house https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACH_Network https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Trends_in_noncash_paymentsin_the_US,_by_value,_2000%E2%80%9322.png - so according to wikipedia paper check are at worst no less than 1/4 of value transfered in the usa as of 2022(just studying the graph of payment methods over time) https://fiscal.treasury.gov/ach/ https://www.financialprofessionals.org/training-resources/resources/articles/Details/making-the-switch-moving-from-checks-to-digital-payments -- "Clearing checks through the banking system takes one to two more business days, and then they must move through the postal system." Oh no, they use USPS. "cost of issuing a paper check ranges from $2.01 to $4.00"?! i don't beleive that. i think this article is just made up https://financialwellnesscenter.northwest.bank/money-management/banking/article/are-paper-checks-still-relevant -- good article. some valid pros and cons i guess my argument is aren't there ways to track check-fraud using databases. and arn't databases kind of what banks are all about these days? shouldn't it be easy to counter any sort of bad actor writing bad checks? maybe i just don't have a sense for how much of a problem checks fraud is, since i don't work in banking, and i haven't tried that time of business yet in my life, but if it's really a problem, why don't they just add security codes to checks? i don't need to know how it works. it's already proven technology. i don't want the app. take my money! ...final thoughts on the whole thing(oct/21/2025): I'm still not convinced ACH and online-banking is so much a paper-killer. i see pretty much all the same problems(and maybe more) with online banking as there is with the old paper methods. it is unrefutable that online is faster than paper, however that does allow for the possiblity for things to go wrong faster, and apparently someone can drain your account via ACH if they get your account number and routing number, just like they can with paper checks: https://www.sofi.com/learn/content/what-can-someone-do-with-your-bank-account-and-routing-number/ https://stripe.com/resources/more/ach-fraud-101-how-these-scams-work-and-how-to-prevent-them https://www.niceactimize.com/blog/fraud-prevention-ach-fraud-the-silent-threat-hiding-in-everyday-transactions/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Banking/comments/17aiczs/the_anatomy_of_an_fraudulent_ach_debit_account/ Also, i noticed they really gouge you these days when ordering checkbooks. I think it was something outragious like $1 a check on the credit-union websited. I ended up going to vistaprint - it still came out to about 12 cents per check. The whole thing just kind of bugs me that so much trouble was taken to prevent me depositing a totally legitimate check from a valued customer of mine. It gives me the feeling that they don't have their priorities right at the bank. it just seems kind of silly to be scrutinizing scribbles in the payee box, when supposedly the bank has a whole IT department with database and analytics to detect and track fraud. right? But i guess rules are rules, though it did bug me how the banker seemed so sure that this sort of policy has always been the case, and was kind of brusk and seemed to be assessing me as some sort of criminal. She did mention that this was strict policy at her old job at Truist. That name ringed a bell, but i am not super experienced in business and banking, so i googled Truist, and found out it was establishd in 2019. So that makes my banker, who was seemed ready to call whatever federal agency and report me, potentially have less than 6 years of experience in banking. i guess to be fair, my dad is no longer managing the church money anymore, and so mentioning his name at the bank probably doesn't get the same recognition with new empoloyees as it did with the old, and it probably just sounds bogus and sets off alarm bells for them. anyway, i like paper money. if my heart weren't set on a life of recycling, i would perhaps devote it to trying to fix and modernize paper money(and checks). there are lots new techonolgies from recent decades which could improve the whole situation i think. p.s. i have to start making these posts in html. i have to do a little brush-up on javascript first to streamline the whole process. also, the stinkbugs are killing me. i keep sucking them up, but they keep crawling in. at least i seem to be making progress on the junk pile. I'm not sure i understand why we do things the way we do in this modern age. I guess it's just App Culture. and politics. stinkbugs are killing me.