I definitely spent more time more time than i could afford this morning reading up on this, however with all the hype around the latest starship launch(flight 10), it was too hard to resist, and i geiniley feel a bit conflicted about the pros&cons of musk and his businesses, and their benefits to society. so in my defence, i should have been doing other stuff, but it feels sort of important to put this guy in perspective a bit. also, i was good yesterday, and did my PT, and made some good progress on some of my ongoing projects here(i'll have to post about it later). Anyway, here goes - it's basically a bunch of bookmarks and small citations and notes. TLDR, The Space Sector definetly seems kinda narrow, however there are other players entering the field as time goes on(probably more in the small-sat market - i didn't really cover that). Musk is definitely a product of comercialization efforts by NASA, though it is arguable that SpaceX has potentially saved the taxpayers money. However SpaceX is not the only company makign new rockets, and alot was learned from perevious program. i tried to save links to most of the larger entities in the sector now - i probably missed a few. is noone else bothered by all the starships blowing on splashdown? or the seeming willful lack of acknowledgement of this fact? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_Starship#Cost_and_funding SpaceX develops the Starship primarily with private funding.[268][167][1] SpaceX Chief Financial Officer Bret Johnsen disclosed in court that SpaceX has invested more than $3 billion into the Starbase facility and Starship systems from July 2014 to May 2023.[1] Elon Musk stated in April 2023 that SpaceX expected to spend about $2 billion on Starship development in 2023.[269][270] In a 2024 response to a lawsuit, SpaceX stated that the cost of the Starship program was approximately $4 million per day.[271]: 25–26  Adding that any day of delay to the Starship program represented a loss of $100,000.[271]: 25–26  Musk has theorized that a Starship orbital launch might eventually cost SpaceX only $1 million to launch.[272] Eurospace's director of research Pierre Lionnet stated in 2022 that Starship's launch price to customers would likely be higher because of the rocket's development cost.[273] As part of the development of the Human Landing System for the Artemis program, SpaceX was awarded in April 2021 a $2.89 billion fixed-price contract from NASA to develop the Starship lunar lander for Artemis III.[274][275] Blue Origin, a bidding competitor to SpaceX, disputed the decision and began a legal case against NASA and SpaceX in August 2021, causing NASA to suspend the contract for three months until the case was dismissed in the Court of Federal Claims.[276][277][278] Two years later Blue Origin was awarded a $3.4 billion fixed-price contract for its lunar lander.[279] In 2022, NASA awarded SpaceX a $1.15 billion fixed-price contract for a second lunar lander for Artemis IV.[275] The same year, SpaceX was awarded a $102 million five-year contract to develop the Rocket Cargo program for the United States Space Force.[280] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_Starship#Launch_history note 1st, 2nd, & 3rd flights all resulted in loss of ship and boosters 4th flight june 2024 https://youtu.be/INUZ9-8p24o?si=TsWYDIUERkZGGnok&t=486 booster landed into water "controlled" starship splashdown? 5th flight oct 2024 booster capture partial success(booster damaged - 1st catch) starship splashdown explosion(is it really "controlled"?) https://www.facebook.com/spacecom/videos/spacex-starship-flight-5-splashdown-and-explosion-captured-by-buoy-camera/1559674601299369/ 6th flight nov 2024 aborted booster capture starship caught fire immediately following splashdown: https://youtu.be/sy_eSo2mPxs?si=a1nHQlI7DxlfUG8-&t=72 7th, 8th flight jan, mar 2025 both starship failure but booster capture success 7th flight booster was 1st to successfully recover without visible damage 9th flight may 2025 failure with starship and booster 9th flight was the 1st to reuse a booster rocket 10th flight aug 2025 booster splashdown("controlled") and ship-37 blew up on splashdown("controlled") https://youtu.be/mDyK2ANmM3M?si=qSuRXQnQBRtdR3Jf&t=1256 note ship-36 blew up a couple months back during tests also worth looking at(2019-2021): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Starship_upper_stage_flight_tests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_program note according to wikipedia the total cost of apollo was $25.4 billion (1973 - or $257 billion in 2020-inflation-adjusted-cost), over the course of 11 years from the 1st lower stage test in 1961 to the last mission to the moon in 1972. Successes 32 Failures 2 (Apollo 1 and 13) Partial failures 1 (Apollo 6) https://join1440.com/a/saturn-v-vs-starship-what-are-the-key-differences it's funny to think i totally forgot we already returned to lunar orbit(actually not quite): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemis_I https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemis_program other noteworthy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_IV_Heavy Cost per launch US$350 million[1] NRO: US$440 million https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulcan_Centaur Cost per launch US$110 million (starting)[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_Heavy Cost per launch Reusable: US$97 million (2022)[1] Expendable: US$150 million (2017)[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_V Cost per launch US$110–153 million (2016)[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minotaur_I i'm kind of suspicious of wikipedia's cost per launch numbers. need more research also relevent(though a little older): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_IV Cost per launch $432 million (USD) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemis_program Cost US$93+ billion (2012–2025), $53 billion in 2021–2025[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_program#Development_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System#Launch_costs btw, honda is building a reusable rocket: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6aF_NdOfzc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter_66 never built: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=57714.0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiller_Aircraft#Aircraft https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=5881.0 https://www.bezosexpeditions.com/updates.html https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/rotary-recovery-of-spent-booster-stages.1545/ back to spacex: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_1#Launches Project cost US$90 million Total launches 5 Success(es) 2 Failure(s) 3 First flight March 24, 2006, 22:30 UTC Last flight July 14, 2009, 03:35 UTC The total development cost of Falcon 1 was approximately US$90 million[11] to US$100 million.[12] While the development of Falcon 1 was privately funded, the first two Falcon 1 launches were purchased by the United States Department of Defense under a program that evaluates new US launch vehicles suitable for use by DARPA. As part of a US$15 million contract, Falcon 1 was to carry the TacSat-1[15] in 2005. By late May 2005, SpaceX stated that Falcon 1 was ready to launch TacSat-1 from Vandenberg. But the Air Force did not want the launch of an untested rocket to occur until the final Titan IV flew from nearby SLC 4E. Subsequent and repeated delays due to Falcon 1 launch failures delayed TacSat-1's launch. After TacSat-2 was launched on an Orbital Sciences Minotaur I on December 16, 2006, the Department of Defense re-evaluated the need for launching TacSat-1. In August 2007, the Department of Defense canceled the planned launch of TacSat-1[16] because all of the TacSat objectives had been met. pretty good article(not really): https://web.archive.org/web/20230430163923/https://www.wired.com/2007/05/ff-space-musk/?currentPage=all actually some good stuff i guess: "...it took the aeronautical genius of Burt Rutan and $20 million from Microsoft cofounder Paul Allen to get SpaceShipOne up and down... ...The Apollo lunar program cost more than $150 billion in 2007 dollars... ...Even the "cheap," reusable space shuttle is such a thoroughbred that it requires a ground crew of 50,000 and costs $1 billion every time it flies... ...Lofting a satellite into orbit on a Sea Launch Zenit sets DirecTV or XM Satellite Radio back $50 million to $75 million... ...Putting a 550-pound payload into low Earth orbit on an Orbital Sciences Pegasus costs the Air Force $30 million..." better article: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-space-magazine/the-tale-of-falcon-1-5193845/ 2012 "...Much of the private start-up capital for SpaceX was used to develop the Falcon 1. They also received some government funding from other than NASA. The Department of Defense (DoD) had need for reliable, quick, and cheap space access for small payloads. To that end, SpaceX received funding from several DoD entities, including several million dollars from the U.S. Air Force under a program to develop launch capability for DARPA (a defense research agency). Space X was given access to and the use of DoD launch facilities at the Reagan Test Site (formerly Kwajalein Missile Range) in the Marshall Islands... ...Falcon 9 has yet to launch an ounce of commercial payload and Falcon 1 is not for sale. Of course, one can launch small satellites using Orbital’s Taurus launch vehicle, but its ~$50-70 M cost and recent record of unreliability... ...More significantly, after investing in the R&D effort of a new, unproven company that was offering a low cost, small launch vehicle, SpaceX’s original DoD customers, banking on the creation of a quick, inexpensive capability to launch small satellites, saw their support of Falcon 1 go by the board. It appears that SpaceX dropped their initial operational vehicle for the promotion and promise of far more ambitious and distant goals... ...That template seems to work for them – NASA has “invested” more than $500 million in the Falcon 9 over the last five years..." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_9 Cost per launch US$69.75 million (2024)[1] Total launches 523 FT: 503 v1.1: 15 v1.0: 5 Success(es) 520 FT: 502 v1.1: 14 v1.0: 4 Failure(s) 2 (v1.1: CRS-7, FT Block 5: Starlink Group 9-3) Falcon 9 is a partially reusable, two-stage-to-orbit, medium-lift launch vehicle[d] designed and manufactured in the United States by SpaceX. The first Falcon 9 launch was on June 4, 2010, and the first commercial resupply mission to the International Space Station (ISS) launched on October 8, 2012.[14] In 2020, it became the first commercial rocket to launch humans to orbit.[15] The Falcon 9 has been noted for its reliability and high launch cadence,[16][17][18] with 520 successful launches, two in-flight failures, one partial failure and one pre-flight destruction. It is the most-launched American orbital rocket in history. ...overall contract award was US$278 million to provide three demonstration launches of Falcon 9 with the SpaceX Dragon cargo spacecraft. Additional milestones were added later, raising the total contract value to US$396 million... ...In 2008, SpaceX won a Commercial Resupply Services (CRS) contract in NASA's Commercial Orbital Transportation Services (COTS) program... ...The contract totaled US$1.6 billion for a minimum of 12 missions to ferry supplies to and from the ISS.[35]... ...In 2011, SpaceX estimated that Falcon 9 v1.0 development costs were approximately US$300 million.[36] NASA estimated development costs of US$3.6 billion had a traditional cost-plus contract approach been used.[37] A 2011 NASA report "estimated that it would have cost the agency about US$4 billion to develop a rocket like the Falcon 9 booster based upon NASA's traditional contracting processes" while "a more commercial development" approach might have allowed the agency to pay only US$1.7 billion".[38] In 2014, SpaceX released combined development costs for Falcon 9 and Dragon. NASA provided US$396 million, while SpaceX provided over US$450 million.[39] Congressional testimony by SpaceX in 2017 suggested that the unusual NASA process of "setting only a high-level requirement for cargo transport to the space station [while] leaving the details to industry" had allowed SpaceX to complete the task at a substantially lower cost. "According to NASA's own independently verified numbers, SpaceX's development costs of both the Falcon 1 and Falcon 9 rockets were estimated at approximately $390 million in total."[38]... https://web.archive.org/web/20130328121051/http://www.spacex.com/usa.php https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/586023main_8-3-11_nafcom.pdf?emrc=4ab890 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocketdyne_E-1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocketdyne_J-2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocketdyne_F-1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_orbital_rocket_engines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_Merlin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_Raptor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclone-4M https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_Lab_Electron i like it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Electron_reuse_ver.2.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LVM3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-IIB https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-IIA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epsilon_(rocket) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_6 cancelled https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ares_I in short, it appears while private business seems able to bring cost down, it appears spaceX is not significantly more efficient than other companies, and is only recently delving into larger rockets that can reach "deep space". https://www.congress.gov/119/meeting/house/117956/documents/HMKP-119-JU00-20250226-SD003.pdf Elon Musk’s business empire is built on $38 billion in government funding "Elon Musk and his cost-cutting U.S. DOGE Service team have been on a mission to trim government largesse. Yet Musk is one of the greatest beneficiaries of the taxpayers’ coffers. Over the years, Musk and his businesses have received at least $38 billion in government contracts, loans, subsidies and tax credits, often at critical moments, a Washington Post analysis has found, helping seed the growth that has made him the world’s richest person... ...Nearly two-thirds of the $38 billion in funds have been promised to Musk’s businesses in the past five years... ...In 2024 alone, federal and local governments committed at least $6.3 billion toMusk’s companies, the highest total to date... ...nice graphic(but missing legend)... ...The $465 million Energy Department loan, which arrived in 2010, helped fuelTesla’s meteoric rise... ...Since its 2003 Silicon Valley founding, Tesla has benefited from billions in rebates and tax credits from California. The state’s governor, Gavin Newsom(D), has claimed that “there was no Tesla without California’s regulatory bodies,and regulation.” Tesla has said it invested more than $5 billion in the state since2016 and employed more than 47,000 people locally.About a third of Tesla’s $35 billion in profits since 2014 has come from selling federal and state regulatory credits to other automakers. The credits are given to automakers that meet certain standards, including selling a certain percentage of zero-emission vehicles. Tesla is the largest seller of these credits to automakers that don’t meet the standards and want to avoid paying a fine.These credits played a crucial role in the company’s first profitable quarter in2013 and its first full year of profitability in 2020, according to Securities andExchange Commission filings. Without the credits, Tesla would have lost more than $700 million in 2020, marking a seventh-consecutive year with no profits,according to an analysis of SEC filings.With the credits, the company instead reported a $862 million profit. While Musk has advocated for ending the EV tax credit for consumers, he hassaid little about these regulatory credits... ...nice graphic(better legend)... ...The company has also benefited from the $7,500 federal tax credit for EV buyers, which helped make Tesla’s cars — which can cost upward of $80,000 —more affordable for consumers who may not have bought them otherwise... ...In Nevada, local and state governments awarded a $1.3 billion incentive packageto Tesla so the carmaker and Panasonic would erect a lithium battery“gigafactory” outside Reno, according to the state... ...i cant copy it all. i should just post the pdf... ...SpaceX, which reuses its rockets, is able to charge dramatically less thancompetitors for each launch...(note as of 2025 majority of launches have been LEO, falcon-heavy launches are not significantly cheaper than ULA based on the wikipedia listed cost-per-launch) ...Shotwell, however, has credited NASA’s early funding for building SpaceX,notingin a 2013 interviewat SpaceX’s headquartersthat the company would“probably be limping along” without the agency’s support...(is that the gist of it?)" HN SpaceX debate: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42067939 Starship's Sixth Flight Test https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42067265 it's funny how SpaceX edits their promo videos to not show you how almost all of their test flights so so you never see starship explode or catch fire. correct me if i'm wrong, but i think so far starship is 0/10 for surviving any launch. it's funny how this is not acknowledged on the wikipedia(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_Starship#Launch_history) even though there is plenty of video evidence - maybe "controlled-ocean" stands for exploded/engulfed-in-flames upon splashdown? very reusable ;D